Just a note - Your test you performed was testing the stiffness of the shaft. Long time ago, there was a similar method used to measure shaft stiffness. Lock the grip end, apply a weight to the other end of the shaft and based on how much it 'Deflected' that would then determine if it was a stiff, regular, etc.
Droop is a function of the stiffness of the shaft based on the forces being applied through acceleration. The Major force will be CF.
Agree totally.
Originally Posted by Martee
It might be easier to see how much it has to deflect by taking a dowel and hold it along the sweetspot plane angle and then picture what this has to be at impact and what it would do for a given swing plane/angle.
Lost me here, am still not firing on all cylinders. I thought your 1.5" was close enough for governament work?
I can easily align sweetspot with handle - w/ dowel or w/o dowel. Dowel makes it easier to confirm the alignment in the mirror, thou.
The point I was trying to make was; it takes rather few N's to bend the shaft, hence the huge amount of N's produced by CF will bend the saft and in-line grip and sweet spot.
Reading your things clicking post made me realize you can trace any Straight ..... Line. The operative word is Straight.
Good to hear you are making things click. I'm still waiting on my 2005 epiphany deliveries.
I can easily align sweetspot with handle - w/ dowel or w/o dowel. Dowel makes it easier to confirm the alignment in the mirror, thou.
The point I was trying to make was; it takes rather few N's to bend the shaft, hence the huge amount of N's produced by CF will bend the saft and in-line grip and sweet spot.
This may be inconsequential to the plane line tracing discussion, but from the clubmaking forums I frequent I have seen the following regarding clubhead/shaft lead (bending forward toward target) and droop:
-The maximum amount of lead or droop is determined by the Center of Gravity (CoG = Sweetspot?) of the head. Theoretically, the shaft should be able to bend no more than in-line with the CoG.
-This maximum amount of lead or droop is by no means always guaranteed and is dependent on swing and shaft characteristics.
-While the centrifugal force is primarily reponsible for this bending toward an in-line condition with the CoG, it is also creating a force that pulls outward (away from the golfer) which creates an effect called "centrifugal stiffening" with the net result being that the forces requried to bend a shaft in motion (in a rotational sense) can be much higher than those required to bend a shaft at rest.
This may be inconsequential to the plane line tracing discussion, but from the clubmaking forums I frequent I have seen the following regarding clubhead/shaft lead (bending forward toward target) and droop:
-The maximum amount of lead or droop is determined by the Center of Gravity (CoG = Sweetspot?) of the head. Theoretically, the shaft should be able to bend no more than in-line with the CoG.
-This maximum amount of lead or droop is by no means always guaranteed and is dependent on swing and shaft characteristics.
-While the centrifugal force is primarily reponsible for this bending toward an in-line condition with the CoG, it is also creating a force that pulls outward (away from the golfer) which creates an effect called "centrifugal stiffening" with the net result being that the forces requried to bend a shaft in motion (in a rotational sense) can be much higher than those required to bend a shaft at rest.
Can you give some pointers to "centrifugal stiffening "discussion? I've been ignoring club building forums for some time and quick googleing seems to point to useless abstacts.
Can you give some pointers to "centrifugal stiffening "discussion? I've been ignoring club building forums for some time and quick googleing seems to point to useless abstacts.
Vaako
Vaako -
For shaft info, the two forums I frequent are the Tom Wishon forum and a Yahoo group called SpineTalkers. Lots of discussion about droop, lead, FLO, etc. Wishon also will have a clubmaker fitting book coming out in a couple of months that is supposed to cover shaft dynamics in some detail.
For shaft info, the two forums I frequent are the Tom Wishon forum and a Yahoo group called SpineTalkers. Lots of discussion about droop, lead, FLO, etc. Wishon also will have a clubmaker fitting book coming out in a couple of months that is supposed to cover shaft dynamics in some detail.
As components of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, the Flat Left Wrist, the Clubshaft and the Sweetspot must all remain in the same plane, i.e., the plane of the perpendicular Left Wristcock motion. This sounds complicated, but it is not. For example, when hammering a nail, it is easy to see that the left hand and the hammer handle and the hammer head all lie in the same vertical plane.
On the Backstroke, the entire Left Arm Flying Wedge Turns to the Sweetspot's Inclined Plane of Motion (2-N-0) and, on the Downstroke, Rolls from it. First, the Left Wrist rotates (Turns) from its Vertical (to the ground) Condition to parallel to the Sweetspot Plane. As it does, the Shaft must likewise rotate in order to maintain its In Line Condition with the Left Arm (Rhythm per 6-B-3-0). Similarly, on the Downstroke, as the Left Wrist rotates (Rolls) back to its Vertical Condition, the Shaft must also rotate.
Otherwise, the Left Arm Flying Wedge -- the In Line Condition of the Left Wrist, Clubshaft and Sweetspot -- cannot be maintained. Then, there is Steering and Quitting.The Left Wrist Bends; Rhythm is disrupted; and the Line of Compression can no longer be sustained.
With all due respect Master...and I would accept correction...
But to me the components of the "Wedges"...Would include:
Left Arm Flying Wedge
The Hinge Pin
The Hinge Blade
The Strap Hinge
The entire Left Arm
The #3 Accumulator
The #2 Accumulator
The #2 Pressure Point
The Base of Left Thumb...1/2 of the #1 PP
The Clubshaft
Right Forearm Flying Wedge
The Right Elbow Location
The Right Forearm
The Level Right Wrist
The Right Wrist Bend
The cup of the right hand palm ...the other 1/2 of the #1 Pressure Point
The #3 Pressure Point
The LCG or "Sweetspot" Plane..
The reason why the Clubshaft is part of the LAFW is Wrist Action rotates the shaft during "Start-Up" swivel for the swinger...while the right forearm hold the tracing of the sweetspot...Which is my second point you trace with the sweetspot, the #3Pressure Point and the Right forearm..which IMO are the components of the RFFW...
so...LAFW...Shaft....RFFW....Sweetspot
Go ahead and correct me if I am wrong!!!!
Last edited by annikan skywalker : 01-10-2006 at 10:44 PM.
With all due respect Master...and I would accept correction...
But to me the components of the "Wedges"...Would include:
Left Arm Flying Wedge
The Hinge Pin
The Hinge Blade
The Strap Hinge
The entire Left Arm
The #3 Accumulator
The #2 Accumulator
The #2 Pressure Point
The Base of Left Thumb...1/2 of the #1 PP
The Clubshaft
Right Forearm Flying Wedge
The Right Elbow Location
The Right Forearm
The Level Right Wrist
The Right Wrist Bend
The cup of the right hand palm ...the other 1/2 of the #1 Pressure Point
The #3 Pressure Point
The LCG or "Sweetspot" Plane..
The reason why the Clubshaft is part of the LAFW is Wrist Action rotates the shaft during "Start-Up" swivel for the swinger...while the right forearm hold the tracing of the sweetspot...Which is my second point you trace with the sweetspot, the #3Pressure Point and the Right forearm..which IMO are the components of the RFFW...
so...LAFW...Shaft....RFFW....Sweetspot
Go ahead and correct me if I am wrong!!!!
The Sweetspot lies in the plane of both the Left Arm and the Right Forearm Flying Wedges. Except during Impact, the Clubshaft is its visible proxy in both cases, especially when the Clubface is turned On Plane.
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