Why do you think Hogan's right hand was so on top of the club?
To me it is the top right knucle that he wanted to control, You can swing to hard and get over active with it from the top or you can get over active with it at the bottom. Hogan's left hand was not as weak as many might think but the right hand was. By moving the right knuckle on top coupled with his layed off lag he could go at it as hard as he wanted and was sure not to come over the top and get over active with the hand. As he pushed the club to the aiming point with the right wrist and right knucle the rotation of the dominant right side squared the arc and the right hand controled the shot.
Why do you think Hogan's right hand was so on top of the club?
To me it is the top right knucle that he wanted to control, You can swing to hard and get over active with it from the top or you can get over active with it at the bottom. Hogan's left hand was not as weak as many might think but the right hand was. By moving the right knuckle on top coupled with his layed off lag he could go at it as hard as he wanted and was sure not to come over the top and get over active with the hand. As he pushed the club to the aiming point with the right wrist and right knucle the rotation of the dominant right side squared the arc and the right hand controled the shot.
You for sure have seen that footage of hogan at the dude's house in carribean or wherever that's at? I think he's getting the #3 pressure point . . . fleshy pad between the first two knuckles on the aft side of the shaft. Mr. Hogan's Right Forearm Flying Wedge alignment was impecable . . . so I think he's getting the most support there . . . also swinging on the Elbow Plane he had his right arm working at pretty much 90 degrees to the axis as Mr. Kelley describes the Elbow Plane in the 2nd and 3rd edition. That dude was slap maxing out his physics and his geometry. Also a big piece of keeping the bend in his right wrist was how far forward he went with his hips. I've ordered your book and look forward to reading it.
You for sure have seen that footage of hogan at the dude's house in carribean or wherever that's at? I think he's getting the #3 pressure point . . . fleshy pad between the first two knuckles on the aft side of the shaft. Mr. Hogan's Right Forearm Flying Wedge alignment was impecable . . . so I think he's getting the most support there . . . also swinging on the Elbow Plane he had his right arm working at pretty much 90 degrees to the axis as Mr. Kelley describes the Elbow Plane in the 2nd and 3rd edition. That dude was slap maxing out his physics and his geometry. Also a big piece of keeping the bend in his right wrist was how far forward he went with his hips. I've ordered your book and look forward to reading it.
Don't forget setup and angles too, he was a master at setup. Here is a real photo that might help to the very elementry drawing I made about setup to plane. Also, Thank You to your last comment!
Don't forget setup and angles too, he was a master at setup. Here is a real photo that might help to the very elementry drawing I made about setup to plane. Also, Thank You to your last comment!
School me on your analysis of the set up angles please sir. I can't remember exactly how this goes but anyway . . .when Mr. Hogan was older I think someone asked him if he had learned anything new about the swing he said "no" but that he had "learned something about ball position." You got any insight on that at all?
I noticed on some of the other forums you were a Duval fan . . . how would you compare Duval to Hogan? I see some definite similarities in their pivots and how the club exits . . what about the grip? I agree that Hogan's left hand isn't as "weak" as people talk about but Duval had a way stronger left hand and right hand I think right?
Also . . . what would you do to fix Duval? I know one thing his hands are no where close to being as "deep" now as the were in his hayday. I'd love to see him win again.
School me on your analysis of the set up angles please sir. I can't remember exactly how this goes but anyway . . .when Mr. Hogan was older I think someone asked him if he had learned anything new about the swing he said "no" but that he had "learned something about ball position." You got any insight on that at all?
It's a mind trick to most players this is why I did the drawing from the players view. I was trying to find a video I had see of Tiger wearing a hat camera and you see what he see's. Most get freek out... All I know is Hogan learned that he could do the same thing with a different ball position as he got older by control of the right hand.
I noticed on some of the other forums you were a Duval fan . . . how would you compare Duval to Hogan? I see some definite similarities in their pivots and how the club exits . . what about the grip? I agree that Hogan's left hand isn't as "weak" as people talk about but Duval had a way stronger left hand and right hand I think right?
I based my Book off left to right players with Hogan and Duval as the main visual, I am a huge Duval fan and have communicated what I see wrong to him several months ago. Duval's grip is strong and he rotated more than Hogan, if he had a weak left hand he would be out in right field then, Now is a different story!
Also . . . what would you do to fix Duval? I know one thing his hands are no where close to being as "deep" now as the were in his hayday. I'd love to see him win again.
Well, sevral months ago I think DD did not get the club rotated open enough like he use to and in case was not as deep, so he fought the lefts. He still pured the ball though when he did not miss it, and now what him and Puggy are working on is starting to show results. His bad now is he hangs back some with that reverse c... I think DD will win again and might even make another run to the top, but not this year, unless he pulls a couple deep rounds out of his... and plays half way decent the other two. It will come though, he is on the right track.
Last edited by BurleyGolf : 06-17-2009 at 11:45 PM.
Why do you think Hogan's right hand was so on top of the club?
As he pushed the club to the aiming point with the right wrist and right knucle the rotation of the dominant right side squared the arc and the right hand controled the shot.
Hey Burley
I dont think he pushed at #3, at #1 certainly but not at #3. He said there was very little grip pressure at the right index finger but sensed some pressure "coming through". Which to me seems consistent with #3 being a non direct drive pressure point. Here is a transcript of the Coleman Palm Beach tapes.
Ben Hogan:
"Are you on sound?" "These are the pressure points, in your hands.
Also this butt pad shoves right on up on top of the shaft, while your last three fingers are pulling up at all times. Very little pressure on the index finger of the right hand and thumb. You get the pressure of your right hand with this butt pad of your index finger. Going through. It isnt any pressure down or around the shaft, its just forward" (He then demonstrates with a movement of the hands forward, applying lag pressure to the #3 pressure point).
I like your idea about his left hand not being as weak as thought.........you can have your left thumb on top of the grip and still have a turned grip and some knuckles showing. His grip wasnt strong by any means but it wasnt super weak either.
I dont think he pushed at #3, at #1 certainly but not at #3. He said there was very little grip pressure at the right index finger but sensed some pressure "coming through". Which to me seems consistent with #3 being a non direct drive pressure point. Here is a transcript of the Coleman Palm Beach tapes.
Ben Hogan:
"Are you on sound?" "These are the pressure points, in your hands.
Also this butt pad shoves right on up on top of the shaft, while your last three fingers are pulling up at all times. Very little pressure on the index finger of the right hand and thumb. You get the pressure of your right hand with this butt pad of your index finger. Going through. It isnt any pressure down or around the shaft, its just forward" (He then demonstrates with a movement of the hands forward, applying lag pressure to the #3 pressure point).
I like your idea about his left hand not being as weak as thought.........you can have your left thumb on top of the grip and still have a turned grip and some knuckles showing. His grip wasnt strong by any means but it wasnt super weak either.
That is what he said and good stuff, but I think Hogan was talking feel. Look at what he feels he does in his swing there and also the youtube with him talking about "you have to fire the hips".. He does not do it just like that and it's aquated to what he feels.. IMO Thats why feel can be mis-understood by others. Hogan also said in 5 lessons his arms felt like they were in rope? You could be right though, it's strickly my observation and my thoughts.
Did Hogan use a Weaker grip for longer clubs before he began to change ball locations?
Look at the photo above in OP, same! I never really looked at the young Hogan much so if you are talking about then I could not tell you, I only look at Hogan just before the wreck and after till his old age.
Don't forget setup and angles too, he was a master at setup. Here is a real photo that might help to the very elementry drawing I made about setup to plane. Also, Thank You to your last comment!
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