So a quick update: I've been working at improving my pivot, footwork, and have been trying to work on attacked from the 4:30 line or elbow plane. I'm still having major inconsistency issues with fats, hosel hits, pulls, pushes, solids, and the occasional hook or push slice. My low point is off, and I'm all over the map. My pivot still looks pretty bad, I can't seem to implement the advice given by you guys. Again I want to thank you for being generous with your advice. Here are some newer videos, the face on being from a different session where I struggled with a super inside takeaway. Thanks again everyone
My angles are different due to my imbalances (emotional and physical). So, let's pretend we are speaking about everyone. The right hand only cocks so far as the address position and no further?
My RF takeaway is like me throwing my right thumb over my shoulder as if I were hitch-hiking and I can see at least two creases in my right wrist. And, while most of my shots are much better given a 21 hcp., hitting a 7 iron 155 with some roll and a driver 230 ish straight, is not really championship flight stuff. Our club champ is 30 yards in front in our reg foursome and our "B" champ is 15 yards in front our reg foursome.
You are indicating that if I maintain that tiny address right hand address and simply treat the whole RFFW below the elbow as a solid bronze cast, and either swing or hit, I will have much less compensation and inefficient power to my strike?
If my forearm is that solid, it will be harder to feel pp #3!
Patrick
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
The Bending Elbow cocks the Left Wrist while Right Hand stays level, doesnt cock.
Now try it with a golf grip but from a more golf like position or point at which this business normally takes place. The Hands behind you somewhat as if on the backswing. There you should see the Right Elbow work some Magic. If not then make sure that your Right Arm is not locked straight, that you arent over rotating the shoulders, "rocking the triangle". Its a Magic killer that one. Sort of like replacing the door closers piston with a fixed length rod.
There are people who are convinced the right hand must cock with with the left. I used to be. How the heck did Homer figure this one out? It will bring so much simplicity, consistency and added power to your game. The RFFW stays in tact throughout the entire swing and smacks the crap out of the ball. The ball hasnt got a chance. It's a mechanical alignment again. Like a wall built perpendicular to a floor. Its just the way it works best thats all. Its not a golf move or tip or opinion or anything. Its a longer, heavier lever that the ball can not resist as it passes. And remember the bit about Ball Speed being a product of 70 percent of the Approach speed and 100 percent of the Separation speed. There is something to be said power wise about reducing Impact deflection. Another example of why Homer thought it was better to be "heavy' than "quick". This RFFW is truly "massive".
Dont cock your Right Wrist and lose the RFFW ,the plane of the Right Hand Bend even for a short while. The perceived benefits dont justify the risk. Besides you have the Left Wist cock or the Right Elbow to give you all the velocity you need. If you were a one armed golfer maybe it would be a different story for Total Motion. Maybe?
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I think your pivot looks quite good. I know a lot of single handicappers who doesn't look nearly as good as this. Swing plane looks good too.
But you're not using the pivot correctly though.
Pic 16-17-18 shows that you have an outside-in motion while the other guy is turning properly through the ball.
Pic 16: His hands are lower, he has more Accumulator #2 angle and he has much more shoulder turn left. He is positioned to swing the club straight down and straight through the ball.
If you from pic 16 were able to turn your shoulders on a very steep plane (by hip tilt) you could keep the swing plane and get away with it with flying colors (and perhaps a bad back after a few years). But your hands aren't going down under. Instead your shoulders are turning out to the left field. And this brings your hands - and then your club outsidde the swing plane. And I bet you loose a lot of lag pressure too.
Frame by frame you need to get your hands quicker down towards the ground. Your hands. Not your club head. The longer you let the club point towards the sky, the faster it will release. And you need to somehow delay your basically horizontal shoulder turn through those very same frames. Get your hands under your right shoulder - not around it.
So how do you get the hands quicker down? Three things that can help: 1) More forward bend from the hips at address (but I think you look good already), 2) More hula-hula: A little hip tilt in the back swing and some more forward hip tilt in the down swing. Hip tilt from the top can get your hands down pretty quick. 3) By pressing down with your right arm. Eventually you will have to turn your shoulders out of the way, but that will produce on-plane power if your hands are low enough when it happens.
If you have the yellow book you should look up "aiming point" it may get you a long way without thinking about a lot of body parts. Or you can use Ian Wosnam's old swing thought: "Down. And (then turn) through".
PS: Watch the pictures above of yourself, Hogan and Snead earlier in this thread. Your shoulders are quite as steep as theirs on the top of the back swing. But see how flat your shoulders are at impact and how much steeper their's are at impact.
Was mr. Woosnam a swinger or hitter? Does bending over more at hips mean turning on the shoulder plane/one plane?
Thanks.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I don't know whether Woosie is a swinger or a hitter. It is not always something you can see. In fact, I suspect that most top golfers blend swinging and hitting quite well.
Bending more will steepen your shoulder turn somehow. But you will not be able to turn them on any swing plane. Not with a conventional stroke anyway. Moe Norman was pretty close though. With his single axis swing.
Moving the hips forward during transition is a bigger contributor to steepening the back shoulder. But the hips alone isn't all that's to it either.
Turning your torso away from the ball (compress the right side, stretch the left) also can do a lot to bring the hands and club down on the right path.
Thanks for the reply. Do you think what you are advocating could be accomplished with more waist bend/knee flex on the DS/through impact than at address/through the BS to the top? This seems to be a characteristic of many of the game's great ballstrikers of the past.
. The right hand only cocks so far as the address position and no further?
You are indicating that if I maintain that tiny address right hand address and simply treat the whole RFFW below the elbow as a solid bronze cast, and either swing or hit, I will have much less compensation and inefficient power to my strike?
If my forearm is that solid, it will be harder to feel pp #3!
Patrick
You dont cock the right wrist at all. Cocking being a vertical motion. The only Right Wrist motion allowed for is horizontal , bending, assuming you start at Adjusted Address. If you start at Fix on the other hand , then freeze it , no bending required. If you start at Adjusted, with a flat right wrist, you need to re establish the degree of bend you prescribed at Fix dynamically.
This should not effect your ability to sense the lagging condition of the clubhead vis a vis the hands. Lag pressure at the #3pp.
So a quick update: I've been working at improving my pivot, footwork, and have been trying to work on attacked from the 4:30 line or elbow plane. I'm still having major inconsistency issues with fats, hosel hits, pulls, pushes, solids, and the occasional hook or push slice. My low point is off, and I'm all over the map. My pivot still looks pretty bad, I can't seem to implement the advice given by you guys. Again I want to thank you for being generous with your advice. Here are some newer videos, the face on being from a different session where I struggled with a super inside takeaway. Thanks again everyone
Dude you have some really nice things going on in this golf swing. But you can fix a lot of those issues by cleaning up your pivot.
This is a beautiful picture here . . . . love the arm position . . . really nice.
Arms working really nice here too . . . I wish I could get this look. But here you can see you are starting to spin open too much.
Here's your issue . . . you have NO axis tilt . . . your hips are stalled out . . .
Compare your vertical spine to these . . . Hips gotta turn AND SLIDE.
You need to hit TONS of shots where you stop just slightly above this position . . . you want to finish with your legs straight and stretched out . . . hips up . . . feel like you are pinching a penny in your butt cheeks . . . finish with your arms stretched out and the club below or in line with your hands . . . not recocked. You need to learn how to control low point and extend the radius of the swing . . . full lever extension. For you it should probably feel like NO TURNING . . you already know how to turn thru the ball . . . you need to learn how to slide your hips forward and get your tea cup tilted.
You need to tatoo this picture to your forehead. Note how your arms are "all shrinked up" . . .
Notice how much farther forward, up and turned Hogan's hips are than Ernies . . . not the clubface on els . . . once your hips stop going the face is going to flash fast . . . .
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 04-12-2010 at 11:05 AM.
Thanks for the reply. Do you think what you are advocating could be accomplished with more waist bend/knee flex on the DS/through impact than at address/through the BS to the top? This seems to be a characteristic of many of the game's great ballstrikers of the past.
I am by no means a swing expert, but her's how I see it:
I think your pivot looks pretty good already. I don't think what happens from the hips and down prevents you from pureing the ball.
You need to pay attention to what your hands are doing with the club. I suspect that you have a steering tendency deep down somewhere in your brains; Small grey cells that are convinced that you will slice it big time unless you force the club to close. And that kind of thinking tends to have the opposite effect of the intended. And it's a swing speed waister as well. That's why a lot of slicers hit some of their biggest slices when there's disaster on the right side of the fairway.
There is also an element of rhythm involved in squaring the club face naturally. If you drive your hands too much forward in the down swing (like a hitter) it will tend towards a fade / slice. This is called angled hinging. What you should aim for is called "dual horizontal hinging". You'll find a lot about it here if you use the search function. But it basically deals with how the club face should move in in the swing - and the rhythm required to make it happen. There's an element of pivot & hands timing/synchronisation that can often make the difference between a slice and a hook.
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