Supination - but without closing the club face?

[wewer]

I've been working on supinating my left wrist to help avoid breaking down at impact. I've been using a Tac Tic as feedback to insure that the left wrist remains flat. The problem is that my effort to supinate is leading to a severely closed clubface at impact. I'm following Hogan's suggestion of turning the left palm up at impact per his instructions in Five Lessons.

So while I'm getting improved lag and compressing the ball well at impact, the shot pattern reveals a ball flight that is initially straight, but hooks significantly at the end of the shot. Any advice?

[BerntR]

Hogan played with such a weak grip that it was virtually impossible for him to hook it. He would probably slice it big time without the supination.

If you wish to follow in his path maybe you should probably do some of the same.

Then, perhaps you need to start tracing the target line with the club head through impact. You can use your divots as a monitor. They point right today. When your clubhead goes towards right field and the club face points at the target you get a ball that starts towards target and turn left.

[EdZ]

I've been working on supinating my left wrist to help avoid breaking down at impact. I've been using a Tac Tic as feedback to insure that the left wrist remains flat. The problem is that my effort to supinate is leading to a severely closed clubface at impact. I'm following Hogan's suggestion of turning the left palm up at impact per his instructions in Five Lessons.

So while I'm getting improved lag and compressing the ball well at impact, the shot pattern reveals a ball flight that is initially straight, but hooks significantly at the end of the shot. Any advice?

In addition to the weaker grip, key on the right hand staying bent back and not feeling the full swivel (something I would only tell a someone with a hook). Driving the bent right wrist down the line, while feeling the elbow pockets staying face up. Hit some punch cut shots to get the feel, stopping at both arms straight.

all of that assumes you are getting good compression and are not leakage hooking. You'll end up with an arched left wrist position (and potentially a bit of a push). The combination of the arched left and bent right tend to counter balance each other and prevent the clubface from closing, sort of a Trevino push/cut results, and if you then get the feel of swinging more left, you'll be close to what Hogan did.

[12 piece bucket]

I've been working on supinating my left wrist to help avoid breaking down at impact. I've been using a Tac Tic as feedback to insure that the left wrist remains flat. The problem is that my effort to supinate is leading to a severely closed clubface at impact. I'm following Hogan's suggestion of turning the left palm up at impact per his instructions in Five Lessons.

So while I'm getting improved lag and compressing the ball well at impact, the shot pattern reveals a ball flight that is initially straight, but hooks significantly at the end of the shot. Any advice?

BE CAREFUL WITH THAT STUFF MAN . . . Note that Hogan double cocked his left wrist (bent and cocked) and the clubface was pretty OPEN at the top . . . he had a fairly weak grip (probably not as weak as some would like to think) . . . had really flat clubs bent open . . . and swung on the elbow plane.

So . . . if your ball is starting straight then the face is pretty much SQUARE at impact and you are swinging right of it to get the hook spin . . . if you are doing that arching you are likely hitting a low ball as well . . . have a look at the rate at which your face is closing . . . probably fast if you are taking the Hogan pill . . .

If you want that ball to start right of the target and draw back to it . . . you better get the face OPEN more.

I'd suggest leaving that supination alone . . . work on your pivot and learn how the left wrist works. THE LEFT WRIST WORKS IN A HAMMERING MOTION . . . IF YOU ARCH . . . YOU CAN'T HAMMER. Isolate your left wrist . . . lift the clubhead up by cocking your left wrist in a vertical plane like you were going to hammer a nail into the ground vertically. That's how your left wrist works . . . that is the left forearm flying wedge . . . note if your grip is turned you will hammer and your wrist will bend and cock to keep the shaft in line with the left arm . . . that is RHYTHM . . . if you are UNCOCKING there is NO IMPETUS TO FLIP . . . YOU DON"T NEED THAT ARCHY STUFF.

Another thing is learn to pivot with proper geometry . . . don't move your head around . . . make sure that your left shoulder is far enough forward that you don't have to do some whacky stuff to get low point infront of the ball. If you are pivoting in a way that you can sustain the pivot lag and get your rotation going . .. you won't throw the club away . . . tie that in with an understanding of how the left wrist works (left arm flying wedge with it's rhythm . . .) you won't need to worry about that supination stuff.

Hogan may have done that supination stuff . . . but the bottom line is his pivot was so dynamic and he swung so much on plane that all that stuff happened . . . do you think with all that accumulator lag he was trying to hold on to the lag? HECK NO!!! He set a lot of angle . . . AND HE RELEASED IT . . . SLUNG IT DOWN OUT AND FORWARD AND THEN QUICKLY BACK UP AND IN ON PLANE . . . NO HANGING ON . . . that club was RIPPING DOWN PLANE AND BACK UP PLANE.

[dodger]

I was going to add something and realized Bucket nailed this one to the wall. Great response, tons of good stuff here.

[innercityteacher]

I always wondered why some people used so little effort but fired the club down-plane so quickly and the ball jumped!

Mr. Buckett, thanks for the very informative post! It is very cool to work through the lengthy details in constructing a more effective motion. I'm hoping the vertical hinge hammer (VHH) can work with a swing or a hit.

While swinging or hitting, a forward lateral hip slide seems to "invite" the vertical hinge to slide down-plane. I've watched Yoda's movie (

) about the vertical hinge and throwing it down at the ball. I did it yesterday, I think, planting and firing the vertical hinge down-plane. My angle hinges came up short and right with tremendous spin and stopping power , but my horizontal hinges stayed on-target a long time. One 5 wood went in from 180 yards for a birdie. Three other shots went running over the green winding up almost directly behind the flag in the fringe. (Being pin-high is fun, as is being on target.) (I should've putted those balls out of the thick rough but, "Noooooo," I had to try the perfect chip adding 8 extra strokes to my score!)

So, is that what is meant by "throwing the vertical hinge down?" Can a person supercharge a swing by planting and throwing that vertical hinge down-plane, or snapping the VHH down? The short and right result would be bad ball placement or funky impact positions?

BE CAREFUL WITH THAT STUFF MAN . . . Note that Hogan double cocked his left wrist (bent and cocked) and the clubface was pretty OPEN at the top . . . he had a fairly weak grip (probably not as weak as some would like to think) . . . had really flat clubs bent open . . . and swung on the elbow plane.

So . . . if your ball is starting straight then the face is pretty much SQUARE at impact and you are swinging right of it to get the hook spin . . . if you are doing that arching you are likely hitting a low ball as well . . . have a look at the rate at which your face is closing . . . probably fast if you are taking the Hogan pill . . .

If you want that ball to start right of the target and draw back to it . . . you better get the face OPEN more.

I'd suggest leaving that supination alone . . . work on your pivot and learn how the left wrist works. THE LEFT WRIST WORKS IN A HAMMERING MOTION . . . IF YOU ARCH . . . YOU CAN'T HAMMER. Isolate your left wrist . . . lift the clubhead up by cocking your left wrist in a vertical plane like you were going to hammer a nail into the ground vertically. That's how your left wrist works . . . that is the left forearm flying wedge . . . note if your grip is turned you will hammer and your wrist will bend and cock to keep the shaft in line with the left arm . . . that is RHYTHM . . . if you are UNCOCKING there is NO IMPETUS TO FLIP . . . YOU DON"T NEED THAT ARCHY STUFF.

Another thing is learn to pivot with proper geometry . . . don't move your head around . . . make sure that your left shoulder is far enough forward that you don't have to do some whacky stuff to get low point infront of the ball. If you are pivoting in a way that you can sustain the pivot lag and get your rotation going . .. you won't throw the club away . . . tie that in with an understanding of how the left wrist works (left arm flying wedge with it's rhythm . . .) you won't need to worry about that supination stuff.

Hogan may have done that supination stuff . . . but the bottom line is his pivot was so dynamic and he swung so much on plane that all that stuff happened . . . do you think with all that accumulator lag he was trying to hold on to the lag? HECK NO!!! He set a lot of angle . . . AND HE RELEASED IT . . . SLUNG IT DOWN OUT AND FORWARD AND THEN QUICKLY BACK UP AND IN ON PLANE . . . NO HANGING ON . . . that club was RIPPING DOWN PLANE AND BACK UP PLANE.