Do you think Mr. H. Haney is unknowingly teaching 10-6-D to everyone. Does O'Mera also employ this pattern?
Concerning Mr. Leadbetter... I did take some lessons from him, pre-TGM.
He is very good at making the one feel comfortable, and has a very good way about him when he is one on one. This was at Greenleaf...pre real big $.
The pictures in the back of his book (sequences) look very similar to the ones in TGM.
He seems to prefer a Sweep Load, and a Reverse Plane Shift. I never felt comfortable with the sweep load. He also wanted Double Wrist Action.
He "delags" players by replacing a beautiful snap release with a sweep release. This is pure incompetence. It's like cutting two of the spark plug wires of a V6 in order to slow down, rather than easing off the accelerator.
Do you think Mr. H. Haney is unknowingly teaching 10-6-D to everyone. Does O'Mera also employ this pattern?
Concerning Mr. Leadbetter... I did take some lessons from him, pre-TGM.
He is very good at making the one feel comfortable, and has a very good way about him when he is one on one. This was at Greenleaf...pre real big $.
The pictures in the back of his book (sequences) look very similar to the ones in TGM.
He seems to prefer a Sweep Load, and a Reverse Plane Shift. I never felt comfortable with the sweep load. He also wanted Double Wrist Action.
He "delags" players by replacing a beautiful snap release with a sweep release. This is pure incompetence. It's like cutting two of the spark plug wires of a V6 in order to slow down, rather than easing off the accelerator.
MJ,
What's going on with your guy C. Howell? Did you see how he got robbed Sunday? Will he be able to get back on track after being "delagged?" Is he still under Lead?
I was glad to see him back in the hunt. Hopefully it will be more and more often.
I know he(Mr. Leadbetter) did try to do that with Charley Howell(de-lag).
It's really the Release more than Lag. I think he wants the flat left/bent right at Impact, with slight forward lean of the shaft.
I saw one other guy that he was trying to change this on. He actually had a de-lagging drill for him. This guy had a Snap Release, and huge forward lean of the shaft at impact. His head did drop a lot on the downswing, I suppose to match up the Radius.
The fellow I saw working with him, just had him widen his stance, and move the ball Up a little(with a driver). He told him to leave the Release and Lag alone!
Howell has the best combination of sustained max wristcock and max delay snap release that I've seen. Whether Leadbetter wants him to reduce or leak wristcock, change to a sweep release, or go to an earlier snap release, it's like someone painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.
Gentlemen.
Great correspondence!!! May I.... contribute perhaps some food for thought? There are many advantages to a "Full Sweep" Loading Action
1. It's easy to Trace the plane Line with the Sweetspot Plane with #3PP
2. It's easy to establish the L/R Wrist Alignments - early on
3. It's easiy to monitor the Fanning Motion of the Right Forearm
4. It's easy to monitor the Start-Up swivel for Standard Wrist Action
5. It's easy to move an"Effectively Lighter Clubhead Mass"up the plane
6. It helps maintain a more "Centered" motion of head, eyes, + ears
7. It helps maintained a more uniform pivot of the hips - Less Slide in Backstroke Arc.
8. It helps stabilize the Center of Gravity for the motion about the lower axis
9. It helps provide a Backstroke Arc that is more closely related to the downstroke Arc--Keeps the pulley sizes more closely a like.
10.Keeps the Hand speed at a more managable pace through Start-Up
11 Keeps the arc of the right elbow at a more uniform radius to the ribcage or Torso for Pitch Basic.
12. Helps keep the circumference of the Shoulder Turn more uniform aroung the upper axis located at the spine between the shoulders
13. It helps to maintain a stable radius for the knees and ankles
14. It helps control the amount of loading action for both float loading and drag loading - (7-22) "The amount of loading can be controlled by the SPEED of the entire motion, or by the sharpness of the specific procedure, or BOTH - Sergio's change from Downstroke Side with both Float and Drag Loading....The solution... Move toward Full Sweep. I spoke with Bobby Clampett at Kingsmill a couple years back and also played 18 holes with him and one of the component changes was a move away from snap to Full Sweep. Now there is a " Battle tested Machinist"!
15. Easier to control baskstroke length...Ever tried playing the wedge game with a snap loading procedure. Random is probably as close as you can get and still maintain control.
16. Gives you less compensations and components to change when switching from snap loading that persimmon driver that we all still carry in our bags and full-sweeping that X-Stiff D-4 Vokey Design Sand Wedge that has a custom sole configuration that matches both a Digging and/or Sliding style of technique--Versatlity is Mandatory!!!
17. It helps maintain Power Package structure a little easier than its's Big Brother the Snap who if loaded to sharply will collapse the alignments of the Flying Wedges during a Change of Direction if loded to quickly or sharply... Then you got nothing but a "flimpsy" power package structure to "Bunt" the ball aroung the golf course.
18. Theres nothing wrong with keeping the club within one's capacity to monitor the 3 Functions via one's level of proprioception(Feel or Awareness of one's own body in 3 Dimensional Space) ie. Monitoring SKILLS!
Sorry, to be long winded, but all my post are... because I need to learn to say the least to gain the most!!!! Sorry, Michael I still haven't learn that lesson yet!
Personally, I prefer Random Sweep back and down for Hitting and Full Sweep Back and whatever I choose for downstroke for swinging...Chuck and Lynn really opened my eyes to random on downstrke for swinging, It's nice with a wrist throw....Very Nice indeed!!!
At the moment i am starting the book and concentrating on the swinging stroke. I positively dislike snap loading however and always swing better with sweep or randon loading. Good to see an expert using the sweep when swinging. The sad thing is i would like to assemble my swing as per chapter 12 but the one thing i don't find working for me is snap loading. If you would be kind enough to answer a couple of questions
1. How badly am i affecting my stroke compensation wise by not using snap loading (Recommended procedure) for swinging? I know it is all about having a stroke with the minimum compensations possible.
2. What differences might i expect between my stroke and the recommended?
Lagster,
I am not familiar to what Mr. Haney teaches... I've never watched or heard him. I'm not qualified to make a judgement!!! He must be an expert if Tiger Woods is his coach. I did see his last book, saw a dirty picture in there.... that said "Yes" ...showed it to my mother who taught Plane Geometry in High School and she said that..." Congruent Planes have the same angle in degrees but are "NOT In The Same PLANE"" ....Two different Planes with the same angle running parallel to each other. He also showed a nice picture and said "NO" .... I showed this picture to my mother who has a math degree, not sure what level....She said the "Nice" picture was nice and shouldn't be a "NO".
A plane is a flat surface that must possess 3 non-colinear points!
- MOM
Mr. Haney's description sure isn't like 2-F ... 2-F is NICE and is definitely a "YES" in my book.
Will this help Tiger Woods or hurt him....I sure am a fan....hate to see anything bad happen to him...My friends on the PGA Tour tell me he is really a good guy once you get to know him....Hope this is his year!!!!
I noticed that Bobby Clampett was using more of a Random Load in the U.S. Open a couple of years ago at Pebble Beach. He looked good, and played very well. He looked like he had gotten his old Snap Load so deleberate, that it would be a timing problem.
Mr. Leadbetter tried to get me to Sweep Load years ago, but I had a lot of trouble with it. He also wanted Double Wrist Action. At the time I did not know it, but I was using sort of a Snap Load, and probably had an arched Left Wrist at the Top, and so called shut face. This was probably a carry over fron some very early" Square to Square" training.
What are the KEYS to SWEEP LOADING in your opinion? When I try it, it usually tends to mess up my Down Stroke Loading and RELEASE feel, which is probably a little FLOAT, and then goes more towards RANDOM than SNAP RELEASE.
Also... what about the DOUBLE WRIST ACTION, some seem to do it very well, and still achieve the Flat Left/Bent Right Impact?
Bagger,
Sorry I've caused this mess....I'll try to do better...It's just that "darn yellow book" does it everytime....I start on a certain topic and end up somewhere else... never getting back to what I was originally searching for until days, weeks, months, even years later. I'll take responsibility for this ... Back to 10-6-D ....I see it a lot... As a matter of fact, conducted Stroke Pattern checkliss 12-0 on last 4 students....3 were using turning shoulder plane to try and keep"IT" in front of them!!! Swinging the clubhead straight back and up while the clubshaft making a motion on a "moving" Inclined Plane with Vertical Force.... Some used the left arm swing plane version.... others keeping that Single Wrist action under the club.... There are we back to 10-6-D. Again, why do you'all think this so popular?
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